Discussion thread for Agatha H. and the Clockwork Princess. Beware, Here There be SPOILERS

[hippogrif]

Welcome.

This is a thread for discussing the Girl Genius novelization Agatha H. and the Clockwork Princess, as well as all Girl Genius in general. The subject matter is the property of Phil and Kaja Foglio.

No spoilers are required in this thread. The assumption is you've read the material already. That is why this thread exists--to provide a place for people to talk without having to try to avoid giving away secrets.

I own this account. If you're rude or a jackass, I will delete your post. If you're debating in good faith and not annoying the natives, I won't. If people really can't behave, I'll delete the whole fershlugginer thread.

Have fun. Talk at will. If you don't want spoilers, run away now.

Hippogrif.

Comments

Re: Gil's Age

[claudeng]

I think he must have been hiding Gil from someone specific, until Gil was old enough to protect himself. Possibly the Skifandrians who he thinks would want to kill Gil, but that seems awfully paranoid. Maybe someone else entirely.

I see Tarvek in those pictures as up to a couple of years older than Gil, but not by much.

Re: Gil's Age

[hippogrif]

I can see it in the glasses, which make him look older, and the "taking Gil under his wing" covered by Sturmvoraus bluster and the aristo social expectations of who becomes the "lackey/minion." I can't see it as easily in the fact that Tarvek ultimately allows Gil to be the leader of the two to the extent it sounds like, or the wistful wish that they were brothers. Even accepting that Tarvek's real family just stinks, it feels slightly off to try to adopt a younger kid in, rather than an older one or a very-close-in-age peer...and VERY off for a little boy to let himself be led by one who's not only younger, but a social outcast.

It feels like it would have had to be a truly amazing friendship for that to have happened very easily. Little boys are so intensely involved in their ranking systems at that age...or they look like it from the outside, and from the developmental psyche material I've read.

I can see Tarvek a bit older, and a bit younger, but basically I see the two as being almost the same age, so much so that barring minor kid-teasing they would not themselves take the age gap seriously. Much beyond a year and the younger one becomes one of the "little kids."

Re: Gil's Age

[claudeng]

Yeah, I'll buy that. When they're side by side, they look closer than they do in the first picture, which I'm pretty sure is where I got the impression. Same age puts Tarvek closer to just having come of age recently, too. Little boys are still a mystery to me - my son is still little and my grasp of psychology is nonexistent.

Re: Gil's Age

[hippogrif]

I think in the first picture Gil's sitting on his butt hiding behind a piece of machinery. His right arm is curled around his knees. That lets Tarvek, who's standing, look much taller.

I am the big sister in my family, with a younger brother and sister. I got to watch little-boy dynamics quite a bit more than I really wanted to, growing up. XD

Re: Gil's Age

[lightningnettle.livejournal.com]

Given that both boys are leader types, I'd agree that they must be close in age. I have seen older children led by younger ones when the younger has a stronger personality or the elder a very easy going one.

Re: Gil's Age

[sffcorgi]

Just like dogs, honestly. :D

Re: Gil's Age

[lightningnettle.livejournal.com]

We had a Shiba mix that was telling my parent's much older and larger Samoyd exactly how to toe the line within days of his coming to visit for a few months while my parents moved. Didn't even let him chase his tail, NOT ALLOWED!

Of course, she was the smartest, most agile dog I've ever met. Healthy too, made it to eightteen before we lost her.

Re: Gil's Age

[hippogrif]

Except that dogs mature over a year or so, rather than two decades or so--and dogs appear to have less of an abstract notion of the importance of seniority, perhaps because a larger proportion of their knowledge base is instinct and communal, rather than based on learned knowledge.

To an eight year old, a seven-year-old is a "little kid." The year makes a difference. Two years are like centuries.

In regards to the two boys, well, Gil is clearly presented as brilliant, even in Tarvek's estimation, as well as having *fun* ideas...and Tarvek comes across as a rather sober little thing too busy trying to simply cope to have much idea of fun. But he's also presented as wary, socially sensitive, and with a fair amount of pride. It would take an enormous lot to ensure he'd let an outcast boy much younger than him lead him around.

I'm not sure Tarvek's actually a "leader" in the normal sense: or at least, the American charisma sense. He's working on being wise and informed, but he doesn't seem to draw people the way either Gill or Agatha do, nor work to do so, the way Othar does. I can see him as Type A, but in the quiet, rather irritating workaholic sense. It would take a Gil or an Agatha or a Violetta with a large spanner to conk him over the head until he agreed that maybe he should sit down and have a beer and leave the legal briefs to take care of themselves for a few hours.

Heee. He reminds me a bit of Boris that way....

Re: Gil's Age

[lightningnettle.livejournal.com]

You are right that leader is the wrong word for Tarvek (though it suits Gil to a T). He's not a natural follower though either, nor, I think, a lone wolf by inclination. So he wouldn't be liable to just follow the more charismatic Gil. He may be more of a... considered follower; if you convinced him you were worthwhile. That may be what the young Gil did?

Hee. I like the comparision between him and Boris, who is another favorite of mine (I'd love to see Boris with Mama Gkika, she's about the only one who could draw him out I think). They do both have that sense of hair-pulling responsibility. My feeling is however, that Tarvek is less of an accountant than Boris; more capable of pulling back and do strategy rather than just tactics.

Re: Gil's Age

[claudeng]

He's more of the person who analyzes the situation before committing to a role - if a leader is needed, he can do that and be good at it, but if the better role is to go along with things, he can do that too. He's flexible.