Discussion thread for Agatha H. and the Clockwork Princess. Beware, Here There be SPOILERS

[hippogrif]

Welcome.

This is a thread for discussing the Girl Genius novelization Agatha H. and the Clockwork Princess, as well as all Girl Genius in general. The subject matter is the property of Phil and Kaja Foglio.

No spoilers are required in this thread. The assumption is you've read the material already. That is why this thread exists--to provide a place for people to talk without having to try to avoid giving away secrets.

I own this account. If you're rude or a jackass, I will delete your post. If you're debating in good faith and not annoying the natives, I won't. If people really can't behave, I'll delete the whole fershlugginer thread.

Have fun. Talk at will. If you don't want spoilers, run away now.

Hippogrif.

Comments

Re: Tarvek Detail

[claudeng]

And at the same time, he never uses the Aaronev part. So even if history would record him at Prince Aaronev the seventh, that's not how he identifies himself or how anyone who knows him does. Although, that does parallel his father a bit, given how Lucrezia always calls him Wilhelm.

I agree, this felt more profound until I wrote it down too. Guess it's that kind of a topic.

Has Gil ever used Tarvek's given name to date? He's addressed Gil by nickname twice in the castle, but I don't think Gil's ever done it. (I'm taking that as an indication of how quick he is to forgive and how Tarvek's far more ready to resume a friendship than Gil is, but YMMV)

Re: Tarvek Detail

[hippogrif]

I also am just beginning to think it's a sign of an amusing/depressing tendency originating with Klaus, of seeing family as far more totally controlling than even Tarvek with his aristocratic bias does. Between writing off all Mongfish (with the possible exception of Theo) and all Sturmvoraus...

Klaus is beginning to sound prejudiced in the most fundamental sense of the word: he treats family as though it's a useful and reliable label or brand name sparing him the need to deeply question how and why each individual functions. Family allows him to prejudge. Gil choosing to distance himself as much as he does with the surname or the full name, but not just "Hey, Tarv," seems possibly indicative of falling into the same mental trap.

Re: Tarvek Detail

[claudeng]

I wonder if that adds another reason why Klaus tests Gil so harshly - he's family, and as he sees it they will be judged as a unit. Gil reflects on him, and can NOT be seen as a weakness. So the testing is not just looking to the future and preparing Gil to take his place, but also maintaining the current family image. Keeping him hidden might have been sparing him for a while.

Re: Tarvek Detail

[hippogrif]

Keeping him hidden was certainly sparing him for a while, in many-many ways. Being free of the image and performance issues of being a Wulfenbch in public is certainly one of those ways...though a way more than compensated for by the obligation to hide who he was entirely once Gil was in on the secret.

I keep waiting for Gil and Tarvek to recognize just how profoundly alike they are, and what vital details differentiate between the two, in particular that Gil could for the most part assume Klaus was acting in Gil's best interests, though taking Europa's needs into account. Aaronev for whatever reasons appears to have been entirely dedicated to Lucrezia to the extent that Tarvek could not count on any protection if it conflicted with Aaronev's underlying obsessions. It's got to be deeply disturbing to know your parent really does tend to see you far more as a pawn in a complicated game than as beloved offspring.

Klaus is capable of similar thinking but does appear to have also conveyed real love to Gil, and vice versa. Tarvek, on the other hand, seems to have cared for Aaronev to at least a degree, but always with layers of knowledge that Aaronev could easily turn on him.

I liked how they handed the sequence of Aaronev trying to put Agatha in the chair in the novel. It was more clear that Tarvek was dealing with a powerful and entirely unreliable and violent mad man who happened to be Prince of the domain surrounded by his own men...placing the son in a very weak position, especially given that Tarvek's survival mode for years had been to pass as useless and helpless.

Theo

[claudeng]

I am wondering how Theo's family story intertwines with the Heterodyne Boys and/or the other Mongfishes. I suspect we're not really going to get into that, but I would like to know just how long Theo's been under Klaus' care, and I'd love to know who (if anyone) his parents associated with. He does seem to have a special exemption from Klaus' "Mongfish=EVIL" thinking. Uncharitably, maybe because he isn't a girl? Or maybe just because he's been raised on Castle Wulfenbach, but being raised away from family influences doesn't seem to come into Klaus' thinking about Agatha very often (once, if I remember correctly).

Re: Theo

[hippogrif]

I do hope we learn more about Theo and his own family. I always felt that his trip with Sliepnir to find his father's secret lab would make a GREAT spin-off story.

Re: Tarvek Detail

[lightningnettle.livejournal.com]

He's fighting for his own identity, so that could be it; or, well, lots of families with family names use some sort of different nickname etc to differentiate them. So.

I think Gil has used Tarvek's name; but I'd have to check to be certain. They both certainly use surnames as names; I think it's a guy thing, not necessarily an intimacy thing though.

Re: Tarvek Detail

[claudeng]

I'd agree with you on the intimacy thing if it weren't for Tarvek slipping those two times. The two times he addresses "Gil" are when Gil's dying after the SVV and when they discover Von Pinn in the basement. Both times he's concerned and upset. In general, yes, a guy thing, but a guy thing that maintains a distance.