hippogrif | Discussion thread for Agatha H. and the Clockwork Princess. Beware, Here There be SPOILERS

Discussion thread for Agatha H. and the Clockwork Princess. Beware, Here There be SPOILERS

Welcome.

This is a thread for discussing the Girl Genius novelization Agatha H. and the Clockwork Princess, as well as all Girl Genius in general. The subject matter is the property of Phil and Kaja Foglio.

No spoilers are required in this thread. The assumption is you've read the material already. That is why this thread exists--to provide a place for people to talk without having to try to avoid giving away secrets.

I own this account. If you're rude or a jackass, I will delete your post. If you're debating in good faith and not annoying the natives, I won't. If people really can't behave, I'll delete the whole fershlugginer thread.

Have fun. Talk at will. If you don't want spoilers, run away now.

Hippogrif.

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It's also interesting to see how she reacts to Lars' voice versus Tarvek's. Lars isn't attractive for kissing unless he uses his madboy voice, something instinctual is going on there; but when he does use it, it's irresistible. Tarvek's voice has that thrum from the get go for her. I'm not sure where they're going with this, but I find it a little fact to tuck away. I don't recall if she got the same effect from Gil's voice either.

Gil is clearly more attractive than Lars' to her; I felt a bit sorry for Lars when she gets all wrought up because for a moment his profile reminds her of Gil's. Then she goes through the whole, but he's good enough thought process. I am glad they didn't follow through with a bedding there, it would have been just a bit squick for me considering how hard Lars fell for her. She's not quite old enough or mature enough here to notice that it's unfair to Lars, which does fit with her age and experience. If they had kept him at the cheerful flirt level of interaction, then I would have been right there with Zeetha, saying he was just about perfect for a first time, being both experienced and kind. I am not trying to say she isn't attracted to Lars; and she certainly likes the kissing, just Gil and Tarvek do more for her than he does.

On the subject of Gil, I was disappointed that they confirmed he didn't do any dating in Paris, too busy with adventures and rescues.

On the subject of Tarvek, I was very amused that Lucrezia had Agatha naked when she was inspecting her new body in the mirror; and that her first clue that Tarvek was someone to be careful of was that he didn't let that distract him from gathering information on her for more than a moment.

Agreed on the disappointment with Gil in Paris - from his reaction every time someone brought up his reputation, I was suspecting this was the case, but I would have liked it otherwise.

I was slightly squicked by how much they escalated Lucrezia's tease/pursuit/whatever you'd call it of Tarvek. It fleshed out her character (heh), but was really creepy.

I think they did an all around better job with Lu in this: she's scarier, smarter, creepier, more dangerous, and more decidedly sick but powerful.

I was also intrigued that the words Agatha chose to describe Lu-in-her-mind were "alien" and "mad." I'm waiting to see how many ways that's accurate.

I had, foolishly, Plurked in my own timeline how much like a (predatory) rapist Lucrezia seems - honestly, just from the 'maybe I'll just give her to him' line when she and Lucrezia are comparing Tarvek to Klaus.

I had to delete the Plurk after a set of hysterics, including a Lucrezia-apologia which set to blame anybody else for a planned rape of Agatha than the one who had already performed the violation on a mental level, but my opinion still holds.

The novelised form make it much more obvious than the carefully conservative graphical phrasings. Different audience expectations, of course.

I'm looking back through the first book to see if Gil's voice is ever addressed - looks like they talk about his eyes, his facial expressions, a couple of times his smell, but never his voice. Agatha's first introduction to him is while she's still under the locket's influence and scared to death - not much time for describing anything.

If you find more, let us know. I'm sort of playing hooky right now, and can't afford to add one more layer of archive binge to my work load at the moment, but I am really curious what you find.

The only voice in the first book that I can see she has an interesting reaction to is, of all people, Theo's. He has "a deep voice that made Agatha's ears tingle." which is totally not what I heard him as in my head. Oh well. Gil is all touch and scent and facial expressions. They don't seem to have made much of voices in the first novelization, not even mentioning anything odd when Gill chews the scenery at the university.

Interesting. And Lars' bed smelled masculine. I'll have to think about that.

It occurred to me today to wonder if the reason Tarvek's voice affected Agatha so much, is that he was low-level sparking the whole time. Lar's voice is his madboy voice, when they're sparking. Gil's voice is described as having, I think, infrasonics when he threatens Wooster.

So Gil's voice doesn't affect her muc in CW because he's safe and doesn't need to be sparking except when they're in the falling machine. Whereas Tarvek's in constant danger in Sturmhalten and has his spark up all the time to help him react to danger, essentially he sparks conspiracy making and detection. Maybe how he got such good control of it for the most part.

It sounds a bit silly now.

I think they're doing something with sound/voice that's bigger than just Agatha finding people sexy. I find it a bit hard to believe a non-spark can imitate Spark subsonics. That just feels off. But there's something going on with what voices do.

There's obviously Lu/Agatha's ability to command the wasps. There's Agatha's ability to heterodyne, which requires hearing as well as vocal production: she has to hear what she's aiming for to hit it, that's why deaf and tone-deaf people can only sing a tune with tech-help to allow them to see when they're frequency-matching. There's the hint that Tarvek can hear very specifically, and thus possibly reproduce Agatha's heterodyning. There's the fact that he's the one who figures out how to reproduce Lu/Agatha's voice, and that he manages to improve it beyond his own expectations for Anevka.

It will be very interesting to see what they do with that.

Good catch. THANKS! XD

And following on heterodyning, I'm wondering if it's going to turn out to interfere with wasps. It blocks Lucrezia in Agatha's head. When we get Lucrezia's POV when the locket shuts her down, she hears it as a sound - I think they use the word "whine", but that's not too far from "atonal drone".

The counter-argument to this is that all the revenants in Sturmhalten were still rampaging while Agatha's signal was running. On the other hand, the city didn't really go to hell until after it was shut off. I could think of a couple of ways around that.

I have a growing suspicion that there's something important connecting Lu's voice and Heterodyne hum, but I have't quite figured out what, yet. Yes, I think Heterodyne hum has an effect on Lu and on Lu-tech. I'm wondering if marrying Barry and having a child with him wasn't at least partly a matter of trying to combine two skills/sensitivities.

But I'm not sure, and it niggles at me.

Bill.

Heh. Yes. Brain-fart. It happens. XD

I looked too, and when Gil goes all Mad over the dihoxulator, you'd think that'd be the point to say something about Gil's tone or resonance shifting, but - not a significant word.

Excellent point, you are right, he definitely goes Sparky there; and Agatha's awake to hear him.

There were other priorities for that scene, unfortunately.

On a reread, she does react to Theo's voice, it makes her ears tingle; and he's a spark too.

It's interesting that Sleipnir describes it as a touch of the Spark, when I would have guessed from how quickly he picked up on the notes about how to move Von Pinn into her new body, and thought of improvements, that he was a strong spark.

Mind you, if they are going for a one-true-V, then there's going to be something Tarvek's got that Gil doesn't.

However, the fact that both Tarvek and Theo have voices that catch Agatha's attention may point to a blood connection between the Mongfishes and the Sturmvaruses.

Hmmm. I felt that they ended up writing Agatha as quite honestly infatuated with Lars...enough so that if he'd made a move she'd have been quite besotted, at least until she either found he wasn't able to keep up with her, or simply matured out of it. But that while it was happening it was quite deep.

But I also felt they wrote at least some of it as, yes, Lars being a non-Father playing the role of Dashing Lord and Spark Bill Heterodyne, love's young dream for the Heterodyne Story fangirl, barring the few who fell for Barry or Klaus, or who were oriented such that they fell for Lucrezia. She was in love with the role and the play as much as with the actor who played opposite her.

(Laughs) Now THAT would be interesting: to find out which "character" she was mushy about in the original books and novels she read all unknowing. If it was either of the two boys she's got to be making some radical changes in her existing fantasy life, poor girl.

So near as I can recall, she just sort of overall likes Gil, when she doesn't want to kill him. I do remember she does find his touch all tingly. Well, who wouldn't, after all! (LOL) With Tarvek voice is a definite specific, though: yes, his voice hots her out for sure, and no, I don't recall that Gil's does.

I was interested that Tarvek was established for sure as liking music, being a musician himself, and having such a fine ear he could actually hear a difference between her own heterodyning and that of the dingbots. That more than made up for their inability to draw a possible heterodyne "note" in the scene between Tarvek and Vielchen: they found a way to establish a similar sensitivity without the visuals. Which makes me think it is indeed important: they made certain they wouldn't lose it.

Gil gets kisses. Tarvek, however, gets hugs, embraces, leaning...and where many who read the comic saw her failing to react, in the book it was clear she and he were both aware, and both reacted strongly...if with control and restraint. There's no question but that there's something there.

I, too, regret Gil having gotten no dating in while in Paris--though it does suggest that if Lucrezia is right about Tarvek, we're dealing with three virgins, all lacking much experience. Even more I want to know what Gil felt he was up to in Paris: it really intrigues me that Klaus was out of the loop, and it really intrigues me that from the description it was definitely not all Zola-escapades. I'm currently inclined to think Gil was being a Gentleman Adventurer! Ho yes, to quote our Jaeger friends! XD

Yes, in a book they could make Lu naked and flagrant about it. They did a better job of showing her cleverness, and how dangerous she was this time, too. And they established that while Tarvek is definitely attracted to Agatha, he's just as clearly repelled by Lu-in-Agatha. Getting the body without the original occupant would not appeal to him at all, as written, which is a great relief--and lends credence to his later claim in the comic that he can indeed tell when it's Lu and when it's Agatha... at least he can if he's given time.

I tend to see Gil as the first great hit of attraction, but they're separated before she can explore that. Then Lars is the first big high school crush, and that again is ended before they can explore further. Tarvek's the slower-blooming relationship, and he's a quieter, more complicated attraction: something she has to grow in to. But then Gil's back, and the poor girl's caught between two "perfectly good suitors." They ARE both perfectly good suitors, and she responds to both...but they're different, her reactions are different, and the ultimate outcomes would be different.

Assuming Tarvek gets to survive, I'm very curious if and wen they'll finally give those two at least one real kiss/make-out. My sense is that she's going to be allowed a true growing-up, and to truly explore both options, which would explain why in the comic they made sure that after Gil's Big Goodbye Kiss they made good and sure to establish that the UST is still there and strong between Agatha and Tarvek...it's something they have to explore someday.

She obviously finds Tarvek comforting, and I'm pretty sure uses that exact word in the novel. Gil is exciting, an adventure, but that's a bit scary. Tarvek is comforting, which is plenty seductive in its own way, but might not be as exciting. (A gross over-simplification, I'm sure)

I'm crossing my fingers that Tarvek gets a "you're alive!" kiss when Agatha sees him again, although depending on the circumstances I could definitely imagine plenty of other reactions. It should be interesting and informative.

(Chuckle) Yes. Comforting. Also tingly. I tend to read this and think that Gil's your first ride on a roller coaster, assuming you like roller coasters. Tarvek's your first ride on a gondola at midnight on the canals in Venice.

Here's the thing: they're definitely writing two distinct relationships with the two boys. She's actually better at communicating with Tarvek: they fight less, talk more, and seem to understand each other better. She turns to Tarvek when she wants comfort or reassurance. The novel does make it clear she also finds him not just cute, but sexy...but it's a dark chocolate thing, not a brass band: seductive and lower key than Gil's Big Brass Band effect on her.

Gil's sexy, fun to work with and fight with, charming, maddening, fascinating, confusing. She and he love to spark together, that's really clear. They're the two hot-heads, they're both inclined to action. He's a sunshine lover: if Tarvek's smoke and candlelight, Gil's rainbows and parades.

If Tarvek and Agatha do get that kiss, I am not sure how either will react to it...and frankly, from what I think I see, his "best" kiss may prove to be something slow, sexy and quiet when they're neither of them under too much other pressure.

I felt a little for the poor boy when he was talking to Violetta after The Great Kiss. It nearly melted his glasses... and he felt he had nothing to offer that could top it.

That does make me tend to think Lu is right about his lack of experience, and feel strongly that he still thinks Gil's got more practice in than he really does. It sounds too much like an inexperienced and insecure young man who figures he's just not in the same ballpark: between sensing that Agatha's more interested in Gil, and fearing he's not nothing to match his rival's abilities, he's counting himself out of the running.

Huh. It occurs to me it's also important that Agatha even got a bit of a rush from Othar's one kiss. Yes, he's mad, but, well, he really can be charming, for a complete lunatic. And hes' very handsome, of his type.

I was glad to see that one kiss on her cheek flustered her and mattered.

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Discussion thread for Agatha H. and the Clockwork Princess. Beware, Here There be SPOILERS

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