hippogrif

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Welcome.

This is a thread for discussing the Girl Genius novelization Agatha H. and the Clockwork Princess, as well as all Girl Genius in general. The subject matter is the property of Phil and Kaja Foglio.

No spoilers are required in this thread. The assumption is you've read the material already. That is why this thread exists--to provide a place for people to talk without having to try to avoid giving away secrets.

I own this account. If you're rude or a jackass, I will delete your post. If you're debating in good faith and not annoying the natives, I won't. If people really can't behave, I'll delete the whole fershlugginer thread.

Have fun. Talk at will. If you don't want spoilers, run away now.

Hippogrif.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

bunnyjadwiga

Yes, I think that Tarvek has been thinking about wasping Sparks solely in the context of EVIL sparks. In some ways, he and Othar are rather alike, given their idealism, romance, and perspective issues. However, when it comes right down to it, Tarvek's _experience_ has been far more gritty than Gil's, even though Gil's been trained in sneaky and has managed to be a hero.

From:

hippogrif

One of the sad things, though--or balancing things, anyway--is that Gil's got similar screaming blind spots. Among others he's so entirely Klaus-partisan it's like he can't conceive of anyone opposing Klaus without also being evil or sublimely stupid. Which is a pity: Klaus is very good, but he's been clearly set up to have created some serious problems and made enemies he need not have made. There are non-evil reasons to oppose him...and Tarvek's witness to a number of them.

From:

bunnyjadwiga

Well, yes, but I'm really really getting bloody tired of Gil being blind and Tarvek being clever, self-sacrificing and kind in the webcomic timeline. Ok, yes, Tarvek still hasn't mentioned LuNevka which is a major fault.

I want to see Gil be all clever and sweet and sneaky and Tarvek show his blind spot. Which I think will be "I didn't want you guys to hate me..." Tarvek is acting way too grown up in the webcomic timeline compared to Gil, and it's beginning to grate on me, no matter how much I love the character.

From:

lightningnettle.livejournal.com

I think he has been less grown up; this latest twist with the weasel labelling *him* as wasped is his time to mature. It's time for his coming-of-age arc; I'm waiting to get back to CW and see what happens with him, I also dread it as well, so mixed feelings here.

From:

hippogrif

Unless there's a VERY thick, chewy backstory lurking for us, Gil should be "younger" than Tarvek. While his life has not been problem free, he's never had to handle the kinds of challenge Tarvek's lived with.

He appears to have more experience of the wide world, and he's adventured more. But he appears to have adventured for the most part with Bang as backup, and in the knowledge that he could call for Dad's rescue...or that Bang would call for him if he were stuck. He doesn't appear to have lost close friends or family in the sense Tarvek has, much less make life-and-death choices regarding them. He's been able to trust his nearest and dearest for the most part: the testing from Klaus and the lapse in correspondence appear to be the biggest angers and griefs he's faced *except* for turning Tarvek in. He accuses Tarvek of being a pampered aristo, but so far Gil looks far more convincing in that role: he's had pretty nearly all the benefits of aristocracy--education, security, family/friends, enormous resources and freedom, even great power if he needed it--and until very recently he appears to have had few of the burdens. He's been truly free to be a young man with relatively few fears, cares, or obligations.

Tarvek appears to have never had anything like that, barring perhaps a limited version of it on Castle Wulfenbach. He was born to play a role, and knew it. He was born to be a political animal, and was never spared that fact--as is demonstrated by why he was sent away from CW. He has been having to find some way to juggle loss, fear, loneliness and duty for 20-some years, with so near as we can tell no one except Anevka to "trust," and we've seen how far he ever really trusted Anevka. While he appears not to have traveled much beyond his brief stint in Paris, he seems to have made a point of becoming deeply aware of and educated in the various behaviors and motives of his peers around Europa. Where Gil has only faced assassination attempts for the past few months, Tarvek's been facing them for the past three years...and struggling to find ways to protect the people he loves without giving the one protective game he's got away. And through it all he's known he might be the only person in a position to try to turn what, from his POV, was a rising tide of potential catastrophe, between Klaus on one hand and the Knights of Jove on the other.

Gil *should* be younger and less mature than Tarvek, given the information to date. More information could change that, but I am currently expecting the present arc to force Gil to mature as he loses the security and support he had, sees his father not only falling to an enemy, but warped into being an enemy himself. For the first time Gil is going to have to make the kinds of life-and-death choices Tarvek's been making at least since the time of Anevka's "accident."

I tend to agree that Tarvek's blind spot will prove to be a deep fear that he can't trust, can't be loved, and can't be happy--enough so that he'll deal himself out of the game too easily. He's going to be "immature" in the things that require trust and faith that you're loved and supported. But it's truly no wonder that Gil's still a child in comparison with Tarvek, regarding overall maturity.

It's like William Blake's choice to write "Songs of Innocence" and "Songs of Experience," contrasting innocence with experience of the world rather than with sin-as-such. Gil's "innocent" in many ways. Tarvek's "experienced" in many of those ways.

On the other hand, we get to see Gil grow up. What I think we may be allowed to see--I HOPE we're allowed to see--is Tarvek being allowed to rediscover the 8-year-old who was lost to Klaus' choice to exile the Sturmvoraus boy.

From:

lightningnettle.livejournal.com

I agree that Gil is being deliberately bereft of his family, friends, and base of support right now. Both the others have already been through this, though Gil is working on restoring Agatha's family. Both the others grew from the experience, but it's not a pleasant way to mature, even though needed for the story.

One of the things I adore about Gil is his playfulness; I hope he doesn't lose it in this arc, it would be good to see him help Tarvek play again.

I believe Agatha will help Tarvek learn that he is loved and supported, she is very loyal. Whether it ends in a romantic relationship at the end or not, I think she will continue to love him at least as a friend. It is something that needs time and experience to really sink in. Tarvek now has significantly nicer allies than he had before, something I think will make him a much happier person overall.